A SOLDIER'S PERSPECTIVE
THE WEB'S LEADING MILITARY BLOG SINCE 2004
Before reading the rest of this post, I want you to read THIS. Go ahead, I’ll be here when you get back listening to Nirvana.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Later~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Okay, pretty interesting read isn’t it? When I first read that I was instantly irritated. However, I have a rule when it comes to “news”: if it makes me really angry, really happy, or really emotional, do more research. It’s a rule I’ve lived by and it’s saved me a lot of grief and unnecessary stress. Many of those stupid email forward things have been successfully quashed through the use of my rule.
I took the time to download and read all 15 pages of these documents on “Operation Northwoods”. Like most news stories, there is a basis of truth in the article: the military WAS trying to find ways to provoke Cuba and fabricate reasons to use military force. That’s a fact. It’s also fact the leaders debated killing Cuban refugees to achieve this goal. While that’s dispicable in my eyes, the last time I checked, they weren’t US citizens yet. Finally, the papers do propose to target the US city of Miami to further this objective. At the end of this post you can download the documents yourself.
Going back to the Yahoo article, the first paragraph makes a startling claim that “top US military leaders planned an operation to create terror attacks against its own cities and kill US citizens.” Interestingly enough, not once in the entire 15 pages that the author bases the story on does anyone suggest killing US citizens.
I’m going to break this into the categories that the author address (I won’t even go into the supposed 9/11 connection stupidity): that the government was going to kill American citizens and bomb US cities.
The military generals responsible for the creating the document do not mention anywhere that they should conspire to kill Americans and blame the Cubans. But where does the idea to kill US citizens come from?
One of the ideas floated in the documents is to charter a flight to a “Jamaica, Guatemala, Panama or Venezuela” from the US. The people on the flight could be “a group of college students off on a holiday or any grouping of persons with a common interest” that would justify just a flight.
“An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be substituted for the actual civil aircraft and would be loaded with the selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. THE ACTUAL REGISTERED AIRCRAFT WOULD BE CONVERTED TO A DRONE. (emphasis added).”
The two aircraft would take off at different and link up somewhere south of Florida. At the link up site, the aircraft carrying the passengers would descend to a minimum altitude while the drone would ascend and take over the plane’s flight path. The passenger-laden plane would then fly into another landing strip on Eglin AFB under radar.
The drone would continue on the course, which takes it over Cuban airspace. At a designated time, the drone would transmit “MAY DAY” messages on the “international distress frequency…stating [the drone] is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft.” However, the downing of the plane would interrupt the transmission. Radio stations that listen in on these frequencies would report what they heard “instead of the US trying to ‘sell’ the incident.
As you can see, no Americans would be hurt under this plan. Actually, no one would be hurt since the plane would be a drone. The people on the original flight would never know what happened.
As for the claim that the military was plotting to bomb US cities, no citizens would be injured or killed in the “attacks”. Instead, “a few plastic bombs” would be exploded “in carefully chosen spots” (emphasis added). Only one city, Miami, was chosen as a possibility for this course of action because of the high population of Cuban exiles in the area. It would be easy to pin the blame on “Cuban agents” within our borders. This is the ONLY reference to attacking a US city in the entire memo.
Who would write such blatant misrepresentations of the truth? The author is a man named Barrie Zwicker. “Barrie Wallace Zwicker (born 1934) is an award-winning Canadian alternative media journalist, documentary producer, and left-wing political activist.” (Wikipedia, 1 September 2006)
Turns out that Mr. Zwicker is a well-known perveyor of lore. He has all kinds of conspiracy theories from 9/11 to the Madrid train bombings. On almost every website you can find about the man, he is trashing President Bush. This article seems perfectly timed to coincide with upcoming elections.
But more than that, it attempts to bring discredit on our military. One of my friends emailed me this story and before researching it I have to admit I was angry that someone within my military (even in the 60′s) would even whisper words about killing the people we’re sworn to protect. I wrote my friend, “I just can’t imagine, knowing what I know and doing what I do, that the military would ever do something like this AND that the soldiers would go along with it.”
Immediately after sending my response, I decided to look into it further. This is what I discovered and I’m glad that my predecessors are cleared. I knew that it was too absurd to be true. And now you know the truth. As promised, I’ve asked CJ to upload the actual papers onto the ASP server. You can download them HERE. You must have Adobe Acrobat Reader to view it. Read it for yourself and see that this isn’t spin. This is truth…the way the media should be portraying it.
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Miriam
I’m glad the military leaders from the 60′s are cleared too. Even the truth seems a rather stupid plan. But we are in more danger of the left wing-nuts becoming too powerful than we are that the military will become too powerful.
I had been wondering where this “Bush caused 9-11″ nonsense has been coming from (even a few conservatives buying it). Believe me, our true enemies in the Middle East see this as their time to take over the world and 9-11 was the opening salvo (at least it was the first direct hit).
neo
Why don’t you ask your “cleared” buddies about the 1990′s plan titled “Gulliver’s Travails” ? Also you’ve made a few misrepresentations here – the Northwoods plan does discuss killing soldiers in the “remember the Maine” section and in the attacks on US Military bases – (staged or real to quote the plan). If anything brings discredit to the military it is the existence of a plan like this, period. You are missing the main point – that the attacks in the plan, real or not would be sold to the world as being real. These false flag events would be used to sell the American public on going to war. How does the question of the staged attacks killing soldiers or not matter compared to using lies to drive America to war? As for your assertion that a “few” conservatives have questions about 911 – fact is it’s more than a few, Zogby polls list 42% of Americans asking questions and the number keeps climbing. If our military wanted a war with Cuba and the Soviets bad enough to stage fake attacks for provocation the possibility of a staged terror attack (911) is also possible.
marc
I think it’s also important to point out that it was the Democrats who planned this.
sue
Neo, I heard an interesting statistic the other morning. Only 33% of all Americans actually listen to the news, and get the whole story. The other 67% only listen to sound bites. Perhaps that accounts for your 42%. Or it could just be that polls can be skewed to make the taker say whatever you want them to say. There have been many occasions when a poll taker has called my home and gives me a question followed by several answers. But the answers don’t include the obvious (or at least to me) answer and I then refuse to answer the question because if I take one of their choices it skews the poll. And I do tell them that. The answers given will sway the taker one way or another.
It’s a well known fact that the wording of a question is very important. Change one word in it and you change the whole meaning and tone of it. That’s why polls though they may be fun to listen to the results of, are rarely a sure grip on the pulse of America. They are also skewed by the demographics of the takers!!
Looking back on it now, I’m not sure that taking out Castro, no matter how it would have been done, would have been such a bad thing. Look at the suffering of the Cuban population. I know a family that got out shortly after he got in. The stories of what went on down there and I am quite sure that Castro has not “softened his heart” in the last forty or so years!!!
But given the tone of your post, I sincerely doubt that you would listen to an opinion that differs from yours.
Patriot
Neo, nice try, but we’re about the TRUTH here, not spin. NOWHERE in the “Remember the Maine” plan does it mention killing US citizens. However, it quite plainly states in the “Remember the Maine” that after the planned attack “remaining members of the NON-EXISTENT crew” (emphasis added) would be rescued in a follow up operation. That means there is NO crew on the “Maine”. Even when talking about sinking a ship in the harbor of Guantanamo, they would “conduct funerals for MOCK VICTIMS.” (emphasis added again)
Secondly, nowhere in the plan does it mention hurting or killing anyone in the attacks on the US base. As a matter of fact, the “attacks” would be carried out by “friendly Cubans”. Additionally, they would “blow up ammunition inside the base; start fires…burn aircaft on the base…lob mortar shells from outside of the base into base (some damage to installation.” (notice no casualities)
All you had to do was READ the report. It’s only 15 pages, which seems to be beyond your attention span. Time to take more Ritalin. Now, on to your other ignorant questions:
“How does the question of the staged attacks killing soldiers or not matter compared to using lies to drive America to war?” I think it matters A LOT. There’s quite a huge line dividing misleading the public and killing our own people to mislead the public. A HUGE LINE. And I already answered the basis of this question in my original post, which you obviously didn’t read, when I said: “that’s dispicable in my eyes.” Amazingly, I said that in just the second paragraph (that’s where two items of thought are segregated into separate topics).
“…the possibility of a staged terror attack (911) is also possible.” Okay, that’s not a question, but it begs the rest of us to ask “where is your tinfoil hat.” And 911 is a phone number for emergencies that you use when the UFOs are hovering over your house. 9/11 is a date. I suppose that all the videos of bin Laden PLANNING and REJOICING in the 9/11 attack were faked? And the video and reports of Palestinians and other nations rejoicing faked too? And video surveillance of the attackers faked? And evidence taken after the attacks from their apartments faked? And all their flight training staged? You live in New Mexico, don’t you? I like the TV show.
In conclusion, feel free to retort with some REAL truth. You see, the problem is that you can’t fake this audience because I’ve provided the ACTUAL documents to prove the truthfulness of my post here. All anyone has to do is read it to see for themselves that you’re a liar. Your entire credibility hinges on the fact that people don’t actually read the 15 pages.
Then, to add to your hypocrisy, you mention Gulliver’s Travails, which occured during the 1990′s. I’m interested in hearing your conspiracy theories on this. Please entertain us.
Patriot
Sue, let’s also remember that most of these polls are commissioned by political parties and other partisan elements. Zogby is a perfect example.
Miss Ladybug
In my opinion, that Yahoo “news” article didn’t “read like a news story”, but more like an opinion piece or blog, what with all those “to order copies, go to”. Usually, real news with include footnotes at the end of the piece.
Miriam
Yes, Miss Ladybug, researched news does. That would leave out the entire MSM as far as I can see.
Neo, if you go back and check, I think you will find it was me who referred to “a few conservitaves buying it”. I didn’t mention questions. I said I’ve heard some conservatives who didn’t bother to do any research and just swallowed the story whole. But then they are peranoid about other issues and so leave themselves open to deception. The MSM seems to be much better at that than any of the military leaders.
Even if there have been plans to deceive the public into war, to believe they would go to the lengths of what happened on 9-11 is ludicrous. To put it another way, from what I’ve seen, there is absolutly 0 chance that it was faked.
neo
The Northwoods document uses what we in literature refer to as “passive persuasion”. This is a technique where you give the reader the illusion of a choice while making it clear the end result may be one they do not desire. This done by stating – “real or staged” in the plan but then going on at length about the staged elements. Having “real or staged” leaves the possiblility on the table. I like the tin foil hat references, I never mentioned UFO’s or conspiracy theories for that matter, at least not my position on either. Your reader’s distrust of any source, especially Zogby – the most accurate of polling companies (as accurate as poling is which I admit can be questionable). Again, you and your readers miss the point. These terror events our govt planned in Northwoods would have been real to the American public and terror would have been a real result. This terror would have been used to get Americans to support a military action in which Americans would have died. For some reason I get the feeling your group believes it would have been justified in some way. As for the rest of your strawman arguements:
9-11 staged doesn’t mean faked – it means it wasn’t quite the surprise event we were told it was. In fact, there’s a great deal of evidence our govt knew it was coming and stood back, allowed it to take place and capitalized on it for an agenda they laid out in writing in the Project for a new Amercian Century. (I noticed you skipped right over that one). If that’s not good enough for you please pick up one of the many books the neocons have written going back to the 1980′s which predict 9-11 and the resulting actions in great detail. Yes there are some nuts out there who think planes never hit buildings, holograms or UFOs were involved etc. I’m not one of them. The majority of my questions have to do with known events which took place before 9-11.
In my opinion, presenting Northwoods and taking the position that no “real” deaths would have have taken place means it’s not evidence of conspiracy is big time spin. Huge spin. It shows our govt was willing to lie to us in order to get a war and even if you throw out all of 9-11 conspiracy, GW lied to us to get a war with Iraq. Even the Republican majority Senate agrees on that one as of this week.
Notice I left out personal insults and strawman attacks, if you care to debate real issues and answer some real questions about 9-11 I’d be glad to oblige.
sue
Patriot thanks for pointing out that I left that out!! Neo, if GW lied, which I’m assuming that you are like most others who hate him and that means that he fabricated information about weapons of mass destruction, why is it that the high ranking Dems in Congress who read the same info, concluded exactly the same thing that Bush did? Jay Rockefeller this week was out there slamming Bush and saying he lied, and that very same Jay Rockefeller was caught on tape on the floor of the Senate, back in 2002, after reading the VERY SAME reports that Bush did, saying that Saddaam had weapons of mass destruction, that the threat was imminent and that we must take immediate action and supported the decision to go to War. This sentiment was echoed by many other prominent Democrats at the time who are now echoing Rockefellers new tune. No big surprise.
As to the conspiracy theory about 9/11 I would like to hear how you explain the tapes that were released this week of Usama Ben Ladin meeting with all the people we now know were responsible for it. Did our government just make that all up too? Part of the elaborate plan?? Just like the stories that all the Jews were warned to stay home that day???
AS far as politics, our “esteemed” representatives will say anything right now that they think will make them get elected. So as a freethinking American you should suspect anything they say at the moment as just campaign rhetoric. They enjoy the prissy positions they hold bilking the tax payers for perks and spending gazillions of our tax dollars on their vanity projects. Ted Kennedy for example. It is all an excercise in narcisism. There is no longer nobility in the halls of our Congress as in the Founder’s day.
Miriam
You state that Bush stood back and let 9-11 happen. Perhaps you forgot he just became president for the first time in 2001. My question would be where was the Clinton administration when the terrorists tried the first time. Why didn’t we go to war then? Except that the answer would be obvious. Clinton was too busy shoveling dirt. You want a master at spin, that’s Clinton.
As for the “Republican majority” in the senate, don’t make me laugh. At least half of them are Democrats in elephant’s clothes. I would say toss them out on their ear, except an all Democrat Senate would be worse. Why do you think the Senate has such an abismal approval rating even in the much despised polls?
I don’t recall saying that it would be a non-event for the military to fake a foreign incursion. What I said is it us much less likely, even given the document we are discussing than the litany Americans are subjected to every day by the MSM. “Bush lied, Bush lied.” Well, he didn’t. They have found WMD in Iraq. However, the MSM has lied to the American people on a regular basis. Whether ist’s blowing off the WMD that have been found or taking posed pictures of fallen civilians or reaming Marines for still alleged crimes while refusing to report progress in Iraq, you name it they’ve done it.
So exactly what “real questions” did you want to answer for us?
neo
Neo, if GW lied, which I’m assuming that you are like most others who hate him and that means that he fabricated information about weapons of mass destruction, why is it that the high ranking Dems in Congress who read the same info, concluded exactly the same thing that Bush did?
-I guess your not aware the intelligence you refer to was not from the CIA. Cheney set up his own intelligence group after they were unable to get the answers they wanted on Iraq. In fact, the reports from the CIA were sent back over and over marked “wrong answer, try again”.
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?031027fa_fact
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/04/21/60minutes/main1527749.shtml
As to the conspiracy theory about 9/11 I would like to hear how you explain the tapes that were released this week of Usama Ben Ladin meeting with all the people we now know were responsible for it. Did our government just make that all up too? Part of the elaborate plan?? Just like the stories that all the Jews were warned to stay home that day???
-Your making a strawman arguement here – I never said 9-11 didn’t really happen, Osama wasn’t involved etc. I assert the govt knew it was going to happen and went out of the way to allow it. You guys don’t seem to want to discuss that at all. The story about the empoyees of Odogo being warned is true, by the way – as is the fact lots of govt “officials” were warned not to fly during that time period.
You’re mistaking me for a democrat, I think or even someone who believes in liberals vs conservatives / democrats vs republicans. I’m a true conservative who sticks to his beliefs regardless of what FOX news or Ann Coulter or any of the thousands of DOD paid bloggers say. Our Senate and Congress are nothing but paid off whores who serve an agenda other than the constitution and the people of America (with very few exceptions). They vote across party lines to screw us again and again. You guys talk about Bush hate while spewing Clinton hate – can’t you see they’re on the same side? Please explain why Bush is supporting Lieberman? Also please explain why Clinton hangs out with Bush 1 and Barbara calls him “son”.
neo
You state that Bush stood back and let 9-11 happen. Perhaps you forgot he just became president for the first time in 2001. My question would be where was the Clinton administration when the terrorists tried the first time. Why didn’t we go to war then? Except that the answer would be obvious. Clinton was too busy shoveling dirt. You want a master at spin, that’s Clinton.
-You make a good point – the first WTC attack involved the FBI who paid bills, supplied the bomb and even trained the drivers.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/OK/wtcbomb.html
I’m sure you’ll have something interesting to say on this one – I’d suggest taking the time to go research the court documents, they back up the article I linked to.
I’m also not one of those who support Clinton in any way – the use of terror to control and motivate the public didn’t begin with GW.
Despite what you may have seen on FOX we did not find WMD’s in Iraq – here’s the CIA’s final report:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7634313/
There were some very old chemical weapon shells found which were already accounted for and were not in working condition. The CIA did not consider these to be WMD’s in any way.
Once again and for the last time – the article here makes a suggestion that 9-11 truth groups who point to Northwoods as evidence that complicity in 9-11 is entirely possible are wrong because of a difference in opinion of the attacks being fake vs real is a BS arguement. What matters is that our military and govt have planned and forwarded for execution plans to push America into war based on false flag terror events.
mattnet
So if I read you right, if the military hatches a plan to use false-flag terrorism for the purpose of propagandizing the American people into supporting an unjustified war, it’s just fine as long as no one is hurt?
Sounds like treason to me.
And I will point out that Adm. Lemnitzer, after not being permitted to carry out Northwoods, went on to NATO where he did orchestrate numerous false-flag terrorist actions under Operation Gladio in which many people were in fact killed.
I’d say Zwicker’s reading of history is a lot closer to the truth than yours.
Miriam
Well, Neo, you’re the one who brought up the “Republican majority in the Senate” which I argued were mostly not Republican.
I don’t watch FOX and haven’t read Ann Coulter’s books. (Got better things to do. In fact, I’ve got better things to do than sit here and argue with you.) It appears you don’t believe anyone other than those in your group and the MSM apparently (who, as you might recall, I charged with lying through their teeth). I didn’t see any court documents or any transcriptions for those interviews they talked about. The CIA has marginal credibility with me.
I don’t love Bush, and I don’t hate Clinton. However, I don’t respect Clinton, which puts me in an uncomfortable position because I prefer to respect even former presidents even if I don’t agree with them. But Cinton makes respect impossible.
If you ask me, Bush wouldn’t have needed to worry about WMD to justify the war in Iraq. Usually people who are at war with you are your enemy and eligible to be taken out of power even if you prefer not to be at war with them. Islam is at war with us whether we like it or not. I know this personally to be a fact from having grown up in Muslim countries.
I might ask the question why America didn’t realize this 20 years ago or more except that I know the answer. It is the same reason they don’t get it now. I don’t know if they would get it if a terrorist held a dull knife to their throat and said “Convert or die” (which is not outside the realm of possibilities even here in America). But then, you aren’t likely to believe me, so I think I’ll go do something constructive with my time.
Patriot
Neo said: “For some reason I get the feeling your group believes it would have been justified in some way.”
Hell no that whole thing isn’t justified. My point was to discredit the way that the author presented the material presented in the declassified memos. Again, I made it clear early in my writing that the whole thing stunk. The point of my post wasn’t to argue that what some moronic generals were cooking up over 40 years ago was immoral and wrong. I wouldn’t have supported the idea then and I don’t support it now. If I ever found out that it was happening today, i’d be just as adamant about opposing it.
How about taking the time to breathe a little slower and read my post again? Personally, I don’t think we needed all this crap to bomb the hell out of Cuba and remove Castro. However, politics got involved, the generals saw a threat, and people got psycho and made up hairbrain schemes to justify something that didn’t need much more justification.
The same goes with Iraq. The President had to bring all these other issues to the table about why we needed to remove Saddam Hussein when the basis for an attack was also readily apparent. Saddam had violated the terms of the Desert Storm cease fire agreement on an almost daily basis. He shot at our planes which alone should have been reason to cut his head off. He attempted to assassinate our President which alone should have been reason to kick him in the balls. He constitently toyed with the weapons inspectors and violated the terms of 1441. That’s all we needed as justification. WMD, terrorism, and whatever else was said is extraneous, true or not.
CJ
“…any of the thousands of DOD paid bloggers say.” Holy cow, I almost missed this. Is there an insinuation here, Neo, that MY blog is on the DOD payroll (other than my paltry, regular Army paycheck that everyone in my paygrade gets) and answers to someone in uniform or a political office? Cause if that’s the case, I probably would have been “taken off the air” when I posted this: http://www.soldiersperspective.us/?p=890
There are others I’ve written, but this one is the most glaring example. This is yet another example that you used too much foil. Now if CPL M or Patriot are some DOD payroll, they need to let me know, though I’m the one who approached them and asked them to take over. I’ll fire them immediately. Or maybe I won’t. That way, you’ll have something to talk about at your secret meetings under the bridges on a full moon.
Now, I will agree with your comment about the Senate and Congress. Bravo. You must have removed your hat to scratch your head when you brought that one up.
sue
-Your making a strawman arguement here – I never said 9-11 didn’t really happen, Osama wasn’t involved etc. I assert the govt knew it was going to happen and went out of the way to allow it. You guys don’t seem to want to discuss that at all. The story about the empoyees of Odogo being warned is true, by the way – as is the fact lots of govt “officialsâ€? were warned not to fly during that time period.
Where is the proof positive that the employees of any company were warned of an attack??? And if the govt “officials” were warned not to fly can you please explain why the Soliciter General of the United States would have allowed his wife to be flying on the plane that crashed into the Pentagon???
Oh I suppose now you will tell me that Barbara Olsen never really died on that plane and that she is in a “secret hiding/ conspiracy abetting” location and her children are just pretending to be motherless???
As far as your “proof” that you offered, I would hardly believe a fluff reporter from the New Yorker Magazine, and anyone who quotes the Rathergate network as a source of creditable info, really needs to be taking stock.
And you have such loathing for the Fox news channel. Why is that? I am always curious to know why people hate that so much. They always have someone from both sides of an argument on there expressing their point of view, as opposed to giving the Official Democratic Talking Points that the mass media puts out. Please tell me? I am really interested. Tell me do you prefer the totally skewed CNN????
And as far as your “proof” of the FBI having planned and supplied materials for the first WTC bombings, get real. You pooh pooh FNC but you read that crap and take THEIR word for it???? I suppose you believe that Michael Moore’s movie wasn’t fiction too. And your “strawman argument” comments are real tired. Put them to bed huh.
And Fox had nothing to do with the Documents that were released confirming the WMD’s in Iraq. They were released under the FIA and were merely reported on by the FNC. Which none of the OTHER MSM outlets seemed to do because of course that isn’t what they want the lemmings to hear. See, I think part of your problem with Fox is that they don’t tell you what you want to hear like the MSM does. You only like to hear YOUR side of an argument. Thats a little narcisistic don’t you think??
jordan
The hatred toward FOX is of a piece with the overwhelming agitation over the ABC 9/11 movie. Anything that questions or criticizes liberal views simply can’t be tolerated, and whether it’s the Swiftboaters or ABC, they must be crushed. They cannot win a fair and open debate of ideas.
The article is a good example of the utter cluelessness of the liberal media when it comes to military culture and how it operates. It belies a desperate, rather adolescent attempt to “put the military in it’s place”, to underscore that “we own YOU, not the the other way around.” It’s curious why this thread of thinking is emerging at a time when the media around the world depends upon the protection of our military more than ever to tell their stories.
The bottom line is, if worst comes to worst, and attacks begin on our soil, we’re going to need soldiers alot more than we’re going to need Yahoo news.
Their views of the maliciousness of the military, and the nefarious ambitions of the Pentagon are laughable, and based on movies, not knowledge. It’s well not to forget:
“…it is the soldier, not the reporter,
who gives of freedom of the press…”
And it’s truly disappointing that many have.
sue
Well said Jordan!!
devildog6771
You know, every time I think I have seen or heard it all, I come across a post like this with the coments here. The only other comments I have seen lately more absurd were some I read yesterday and today where the fascists and Socialists in America who have used the new Campaign Finance law to take over the Democratic party by using the “527 loophole” to control the money the Party desperately needs called the Administration a Fascist Government.
I was a child of the 60′s. I saw these same slime balls take advantage of the Civil Rights movement and many other legitimate causes and turn them into radical causes and spread their hate and ultimately violence all across America.
Well, the weather Underground may not be at the forefront, the Black Panthers may not be reeking their destruction and violence, Jane Fonda isn’t sitting on Cannons in Hanoi, and draft cards and flag burnings aren’t happening every day in the streets of our cities; but, the Communnist and Socialist elements in America are still using fronts like ANSWER to spread discontent all over America.
In the late 1990′s a newspaper reporter wrote an article about the Progressive Caucus and its affiliation with the Democratic Socialist of America. He gave the URL for the DSA website and the Progressive Caucus and showed how many members of the Caucus were officers in the Caucus. The Caucus and the DSA both re-did their websites and removed any hint of their relationship.
Since the 1990′s the DSA has been working on a concerted effort to have their choice of candidate on the next Presidential ticket. They have made great head way by changing their acronyms, changing their terminology, etc. “Progressivism” is their new catch all phrase or rather terminology. They are using every minority group in America and our labor unions to as fronts for their movement.
If you don’t agree with the Republicans, fine, I could care less. But you better start looking into who you really are supporting. Check out their donations to Cuba, North Korea, and China. Check out the organizations they are members of and the causes they really support. Search for the old pages of their webs still on the internet. Look for the minutes from their old sites where the DSA talks about the collapse of the old Soviet Union. Then read where they decided that they could have their government here in America if they were careful and planned well to avoid the mistakes made in the old Soviet Union that caused its collapse. It’s all out there if you are willing to do the research!
I was a Democrat all my life until I stopped blindly following a specific party and began to look at each individual member, their supporters, their campaign funding, etc. I no longer support a party that cannot keep itself from being maneuvered by socialis and communists. I no longer believe any newspaper or news medium until I research it myself.
President Bush and this administration may have made some mistakes but there is an old saying, “you don’t make mistakes if you’re doing nothing! “I have heard “we have a plan for over four years but have yet to hear what that plan is!” However, what I have seen is a select few politicians who have done everything in their power to prevent legislation passage, stop appointments to key positions in the government that make it hard for the government to function, and any other stalling tactic imaginable to cripple the present administration. Still, it has managed to make amazing changes and improvements in our security, fight the terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan, deal with a Hurricane once that Governor finally allowed the help, help Tsunami victims and eartquakle victims, the list goes on.
Our military has been revamped completely. Our intelligence agencies have been completely reorganized so they are now able to coordinate their efforts instead of duplicating them. The list just goes on. Personally, I think that the last time a president had to make as many changes was FDR.
So, all you nah sayers, stop your complaining. Either give constructive real plans instead of lip service or jkieep standing on the side lines complaining but never doing anything but berating those who are doing something. Those who can do! Those who can’t talk about it!
Cat Mandu
Thank God for our military, our President and those first responders who keep us safe….
NEVER FORGET!! DON’T PRETEND…..
Just like in Pearl Harbor….we were attacked, folks…..
I guess you might have a different perspective if you lost a loved one on 9/11.
United we stand, divided we FALL.
neo
It really is impossible to have a rational discussion with some people. I stated very clearly I am not a democrat, do not support the agenda etc. As for if this blog is one of the many paid for by the Bush administration, I don’t know. If Bush hadn’t spent 1.6 billion doing so , ILLEGALY – one wouldn’t have to wonder.
http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Bush_Admin._spent_over_1.6_Billion_0213.html
My problem is that if you are active military, your allowed to do this as long as you tow the line. Dare to speak out about 9-11 or anything close to it and you’ll find yourself court martialed – it’s happened and it’s still happening.
I also won’t get into debates with Sue and friend over the conspiracy theories of 9-11. We may never know the truth either way regardless of which story you want to believe. I’m concerened with the facts we do know for certain. That there were numerous warnings from the FBI about the hijackers (85 reports squashed by superiors) – over a dozen specific warnings from allied intelligence services and even an August 6th presidential briefing which warned about multiple hijackers flying planes into buildings. I don’t buy the “incompetance” bullshit theory and I wonder how the members of our intelligence community fell about this being laid on thier doorsteps in speeches even as of today. I know the ones who retire have spoken out to say investigations were squashed at the “highest level” and those who have even more specific information have been put under national security gag orders. These are facts, ladies. Undeniable. Don’t try to paint me into the “bombs in the buildings crowd” – I don’t argue about unknowns.
To the author-
I re-read your article and no, you attack a 9-11 truth activist based on a difference in viewpoint over the Northwoods document and if it mentions killing Americans when the real issue is that terror would have been used against Americans to drive us into a war. You should be able to see the connection to Iraq and please consider this -
Because of the lies used to stir up a war with Iraq we stand now as a nation divided facing real threats. I am not one of the pacifist who believe there is no danger to us from radical Islam, especially Iran. Without another 9-11 the American public will not support military action against Iran. My biggest fear is that people in this administration have already shown that they find using terror to motivate the public is within the playbook. I have big problems with the reaction to 9-11 being a “leave the doors unlocked and spy on every man, woman and child” defense. You would think securing our borders and deporting the hundreds of people in our country who are on watch lists would have been priority but it’s not. I don’t want to hear false patriotism and slogans from people who do nothing but profit from lies. I care about my country and I care about my children growing up free with liberties intact. Even as a conservative, I cannot support the Bush administration because they are not doing the right thing and I’m convinced they stood back and allowed 9-11 to take place, period. It’s not an easy realization and carries a lot of other hard truths with it. Sorry for bringing this arguement to your blog and I won’t continue – it’s pointless as I know the time will come when each and every one of you will realize your being lied to and used. I pray for American and I hope we all support our troops in more ways than sticking ribbons on cars as things continue.
sue
Neo do you ever get tired of reading that garbage??? You claim to be a “literary” person, I can only guess it’s pure fiction that you write because that is all you read. If the story you used as your “source” of “facts” that we are all supposed to swallow as truth, was in fact based in reality, it would have an AUTHOR listed!! But instead it is yet another of your nebulous unnamed source piles of horse doo doo with nothing in it but yesterdays left overs, and Democratic “talking” points.
Devildog, AMEN!!
As far as your conspiracy theories, they are still searching for the truth in the Kennedy shooting and I doubt they will find the truth for that one, but there are a great many truths known about 9/11 which you seem to ignore in favor of your little Michael Moore like fantasy. He deals in your brand of “reality”, perhaps the two of you have shared some Kool-Aid.
“My problem is that if you are active military, your allowed to do this as long as you tow the line. Dare to speak out about 9-11 or anything close to it and you’ll find yourself court martialed – it’s happened and it’s still happening.”
As for this statement, I don’t know Patriot, but I DO know CJ and M and I can say unequivocably that the two of them are NOT “tow the line” flunkies as you make them out to be. They are both INCREDIBLY intellegent (unlike someone else) and FREE THINKING AMERICANS who ARE doing something about what is wrong with this country, and other countries around the world. CJ and M have more morals and scruples in their pinkies than you have in your WHOLE miserable existance. Keep reading your garbage and believe it all, swallow it and follow the rest of the lemmings off the cliff. I have better things to think about, worry about, and do with my life than deal with the fiction of hatred that you spend your time wallowing in. Because while you are there being a glutton on all that crap, the world is movin on and you ain’t part of it.
AS for the “warnings” and the “not sharing of info” leading up to the 9/11 event itself, the problem rests squarely on the shoulders of Democratic Senator Robert Torrecelli who made sure that legislation was put in place that prevented all our intellegence agencies from speaking to each other, sharing information and coordinating a cohesive plan of action prior to 9/11. And perhaps the Bush administration missed something. But no one seems to remember that in the very first few months of his administration he was dealing with a national security crisis that involved China. I’m sure that he was a little busy with that one. And considering the fact that we didn’t end up in a war with China, Id say he MUST have been paying attention to business, not playing under the desk with an intern.
I do agree with one point you made. Those damned yellow ribbon magnets annoy the living crap out of me because I know that for the most part those people have them there so everyone will THINK they are doing something to support the troops. I HAD one at the beginning of the war. Then threw it away when I started talking to “those” people and started asking, “so what do you do to support the troops?” And NO ONE had an answer, just a blank look on their faces. So, NEO, I’ll ask you, WHAT DO YOU DO TO SUPPORT THE TROOPS????? Because all I see you doing is insulting their intellegence and bashing everything that they stand for.
And one can only hope that you were serious in your “I won’t continue” statement. If you have something intellegent to contribute that isn’t pure fiction, please, do bring it here, the debate is always lively and welcomed. But lies, inuendo, non fact base material are not. You ARE entitled to your opinions, thanks to people like M, CJ and Patriot, and the job they do and the sacrifices they make. And you should be thanking your lucky stars for people like them who do what they do, that allows the garbage that you quote to be printed and published for all the world to see, and people like you who speak out against them and all they stand for. THEY defend the right you exercise so freely here, lest you have forgotten that fact.
CJa
“My problem is that if you are active military, your allowed to do this as long as you tow the line. ”
Neo, oh how I wish you could see through those poop colored glasses. I wish you’d tell this to the Pentagon and Central Command who have written me on several occasions objecting to something I’ve written. In standard fashion, I told them that I don’t write FOR them, so back off. Usually, that email would be followed by another from someone in a higher place of office, usually a field grade officer, in an attempt cause me to “tow the line.” However, I don’t work that way. I’m not here to provide “A Pentagon’s Perspective” or “A General’s Perspective”. I’m here to provide “A Soldier’s Perspective”. It just so happens that the vast majority of the time, 99.99999999999%, they have no problem with my writing because it’s fact based. It’s hard to argue against fact. If you’d get the thoughts out of your head that the government is only out to hurt you and not protect you, you’d see where I’m coming from.
Cpl M
The DoD pay bloggers to blog? Where can I sign up for that?
I am not paid by the USMC, the DoD, or any other portion of the US Government for what I do here. None of them know my true identity as far as I know.
Zeigeist
First glaring mistake….Americans dont use the term “Holiday”…they use the term “vacation”…
Whom ever did write northwoods wasnt a yank by any means…
More faked documents?
DoD would never release/declassify these papers without redacting standard names/ places etc…
It’s a load of crap.
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