1. Patriot

   06/15/2007 at 8:05 am

   Here is one that will cause some discussion. The Marine Corps recently changed Marine CPL Adam Kokesh’s honorable discharge to a general discharge after the Marine appeared at an anti-war demonstration in his uniform. While he had left active duty, he was still on what is called Inactive Ready Reserve. Every person that joins the military signs up for an eight year obligation, regardless of how much active service their initial enlistment is for.

   This is probably going to floor some people, but as much as I disagree with this Marine’s point of view, I think the Corps is wrong to re-activate these troops for the sole purpose of holding a hearing and revoking their honorable discharge. I can understand if this Marine were on active duty and attended the rally in his sharp uniform, but he was not. Is there some rule I do not know about?

   Reply
2. concretebob

   06/15/2007 at 9:30 am

   This may have had something to do with the decision:
   “Kokesh, a member of Iraq Veterans Against the War, responded to the superior with an obscenity, prompting the Marines to take steps to remove him with an “other than honorable” discharge.”
   IMAO, it could have been, (SHOULD HAVE BEEN) much worse.
   We are entitled to our opinions, we are entitled to the right to peaceably assemble. Just not while wearing the uniform.

   (and if you tell a General to eff off, or advise him to have winged intercourse with a round mobile pastry, don’t expect much sympathy.)

   The Marine Corps is better off without this leftist asshat.

   CplM, you doing OK, Bro? need anything? Shoot me an email.
   If I can get it, you will have it.

   Reply
3. Cpl M

   06/15/2007 at 10:14 am

   Patriot, Marines are not allowed to wear their utilities uniform in public off base unless authorized as part of an official event. Exceptions are to get gas, to get emergency supplies for a child, or severe illness. Additionally, his crime was compounded by the fact that wearing his uniform brought discredit upon the Marine Corps. Lack of nametapes and rank chevrons does not make it okay to wear the utilities uniform in public.

   Bob is also right in his point about what Kokesh said to the Major and then repeated to a General. He was being contacted in an official capacity and he is expected to observe all rules and regulations. Breaking those rules is unacceptable and punishable under the UCMJ under article 89.

   Kokesh got what he deserved, and I don’t say that only because I disagree with his views. I say that because I am a Marine Noncommissioned Officer and I am am ashamed that he is also a Marine NCO and blatantly disrespected two officers and our uniform.

   Reply
4. Cpl M

   06/15/2007 at 10:16 am

   Oh, and I’m just fine out here, Bob. I’ll shoot you an email later if I don’t forget.

   Reply
5. LL

   06/15/2007 at 11:10 am

   Cpl M, you and I have had this discussion already, so I’ll just say that I agree with Patriot.

   Reply
6. LL

   06/15/2007 at 11:11 am

   Oh, and just a little update, the soldier who was going to donate a kidney to his mom has had the surgery and the two are recuperating.

   Reply
7. Patriot

   06/15/2007 at 12:08 pm

   CPL M,

   Brother, believe me I know where you are coming from about disrespecting the uniform. My PERSONAL opinion is that anyone wearing the military at an anti-war rally while we are at war is disrespecting the uniform. With that said, as much as we hate to see it and as despicable as it is, it still constitutes freedom of speech especially since he was honorably discharged originally. Here is something else that I think is wrong, that you think is wrong, but is not really wrong: he used an obscenity towards and officer. So what? He wasn’t a Soldier at the time. Should he have respect for the rank anyway? Yes, absolutely. But, he is not required to. IRR means absolutely nothing unless invoked by Presidential Order in a time of national crisis. Adam became Joe Shmoe on the street the day he left the Corps and Joe Shmoe can say whatever they want to our troops in uniform, unfortunately. Wearing the uniform to such a function is shameful, but I don’t think it is necessarily disrespectful. Cursing obscenities at a Major is shameful for a civilian and former Marine, but it is not illegal. Remember what we fight for, even if we do not like it. With that said, Adam should be ashamed of himself and the stain he has put on his personal service by doing these things.

   If you don’t mind, I would like to write a full post on this to give it more attention and discussion. Is that okay? I think this is a great single topic.

   Reply
8. Sharm

   06/15/2007 at 1:20 pm

   I have to agree with the sentiments of Patriot. Even though the actions of Kokesh belong in the Hall of Shame, along with those of Harry Reid and John Murtha, you can’t rewrite history so that the honorable discharge never happened. If what the article alleges is true, Kokesh’s actions had to
   “directly affect[s] the performance of military duties.” It isn’t clear to me whether it is his own military duties or the military duties of all. In any case, the marine attorney supposedly said that the standard was met because Congress was debating military spending. You could make a very tenuous, speculative argument that Kokesh’s protests could so affect the conscious of voting members that they vote against funding and military duties will be affected by lack of funds. But that is what free speech is all about. That is what the protest is about. The intended result of the protest is lawful. I don’t agree with Kokesh. It does show you, though, how one individual can make a difference (look at Cindy Sheehan, who in my opinion belongs in the Hall of Shame for among many things, going to Venezuela). It inspires me to make my own difference.

   Reply
9. Cpl M

   06/15/2007 at 1:31 pm

   Freedom of speech has nothing to do with this situation. There are rules and regulations that Kokesh must follow, even if not on active duty. He screwed up and he is now paying the price. If he wanted to do his little mock patrol, then get some cammo from another source. It is illegal for a service member still under contract, which he was regardless of his active/reserve/IRR status, to wear the uniform at any sort of protest just as it is illegal for him to disrespect his superior officers.

   There is a big thing that people need to learn. You don’t have free speech when wearing the uniform. There are rules that must be followed. Don’t follow the rules and you pay the price.

   Reply
10. CriticalFacts

    06/15/2007 at 1:32 pm

    I hope we are all paying close attention to the “democracy” currently at at work in Gaza. This is the same type of “democracy” that awaits Iraq. Many will have sacrificed so much for so little.

    Reply
11. Sharm

    06/15/2007 at 1:46 pm

    I would be remiss in failing to point out that CJ, has shown that one person can make a difference, by his dedication to the fallen and all his blog work.

    Reply
12. CommanderMom

    06/15/2007 at 2:02 pm

    My little 2 cents~I do believe and understand Cpl. M to be correct on this. (along with ConcreteBob) Have a great day, all!

    Reply
13. Sharm

    06/15/2007 at 2:10 pm

    Cpl M,

    I don’t have a background in military law and am just going by what the article said, which is that his actions had to directly affect the performance of military duties and the support given by the attorney centered around protesting while Congress was debating. It seems to me that if Kokesh could have been given the general discharge for disrespecting the uniform and the officer, it would have played out that way in the article. Maybe the article is incomplete. If the article is accurate, then he was given the general discharge for protesting. Again, his actions were reprehensible and I am not condoning them.

    Reply

Leave a Reply Cancel reply