A SOLDIER'S PERSPECTIVE
THE WEB'S LEADING MILITARY BLOG SINCE 2004
Yes, there are bad apples out there. There are even bad apples that are E-9s, also known as Command Sergeant Major in this case. Guy is just a Spec now, though. What a complete dumbass.
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
RELEASE No. 20070630-09
June 30, 2007Command Sgt. Maj. convicted in court-martial
Multi-National Corps – Iraq PAOBAGHDAD – At a court-martial conducted this week, a Command Sgt. Major was convicted of offenses in violation of the military’s Uniformed Code of Military Justice and sentenced.
At a trial by general court-martial on 28-29 June 2007, Army Command Sgt. Maj. Edward Ramsdell, Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 411th Engineer Brigade, Logistical Support Area Anaconda, Iraq, was convicted of violating General Order #1 by possessing alcohol and pornography, violation of Army Command Policy by engaging in an inappropriate relationship with a female soldier in his unit, and by maltreating a Soldier subject to his orders. These offenses occurred around October 14th 2006.
Ramsdell was also convicted of escape from custody, impeding an investigation by secreting evidence, and wrongfully removing evidence. These offenses occurred around October 24th 2006.Ramsdell engaged in intimate relationships with two junior non-commissioned officers in his unit. Ramsdell also possessed a large quantity of alcohol and pornography in his quarters at LSA Anaconda. When discovered, Ramsdell attempted to hide evidence of his misconduct and later ran from CID agents while they were processing him.
The court martial was tried at LSA Anaconda, with a military judge convicting and sentencing Ramsdell to be reduced to Specialist (E-4) and to be confined for four months.
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CommanderMom
Yep, what a dumba#$!
CJ Jones
This pathetic loser now works in Corporate Security in CT and is an adviser to companies on what kind of security they need and should have!! How outrageous is this? This loser gets busted for inappropriate relations with a minor and maltreatment of other enlisted and now thinks he’s Steven Segal!? The dirt needs to come out on this loser!
CJ
You know, it frustrates me beyond recognition when I see senior NCOs abusing their authority in that matter. I wonder how many troops that SGM busted for similar infractions? How many times did he stand in front of his troops and remind them of General Order #1?
There is good news that came out of all this – he just made room for a better E-8 to be promoted!! The sad news is that he can go ahead and retire with SGM retirement pay.
CJ Jones
Oh, and not to mention he’s a pervert of such and illegally possessed alcohol and pornography! The dirt-bag /degenerate pile continues on this piece of shit!
sealpatriot
He just flushed everything he worked for down the toilet, real genius move. Seriously, this guy shouldn’t have had the position of power that he had. I just hope that he can not work his way back up. Can he?
Grumpy
As I look at this, I read the story, I saw a few things. I read with interest, the comments. About his “DumbA Status”, that would be an improvement, in my view, he does not even rate that “status”, he’s lower.
About CJ’s comment, the only thing I question is the last sentence. His SGM retirement pay may not go as you suggest. It might very well depend on a precise reading of the findings of his court-martial. I have not seen the findings of this court-martial. Therefore, I don’t really know. If you have, I agree. The rest of your comment is the center of attention in the crosshairs.
Respectfully,
Grumpy
CJ
Grumpy, the story didn’t mention forfeiture of pay and allowances, which means he retires with the average of his past three years pay as the basis. If he stays in and tries to “work his way back up” he loses money. It’s only obvious he’s going to “retire” as soon as possible to keep his retirement. It’s unfortunate, but that’s how the system is set up. That’s why Generals and senior officers who get slapped retire immediately so they keep their higher retirement. As far as I know, he’s only been demoted and jailed. No mention of discharge and forfeitures. You are right on though.
Terri
I took think that this CSM is a disgrace and rightly deserved even more punishment than he got, especially considering he escaped from custody and secreted evidence. That in my books should have bought him demontion to E1 with all loss of pay and allowance, PLUS even more time in confinement. Guess that’s the ex-cop in me, but I feel that he deserved a much more severe punishment.
Grumpy
CJ, I understand you’re giving me the best information you have at the time. No journalist would be given the information I requested. I agree it is wrong because tears at the very core of the fabric of the whole military. Respect is something that runs down the Chain of Command as well runs up.
Thanks,
Grumpy
ulnu
The media blurp about CSM Edward Ramsdell is very sketchy. The story was mixed in with the two guys who allegedly killed a few Iraqis and then was followed up with info about Lieutanant Colonel William Steele, another porno infraction. I searched google images and found this pic.
A google web search also found that CSM Ramsdell may be a US Army Reserves soldier. Inaddition, if it is him in the pic, Ramsdell is a vice president of Command Security Corporation, Lagrangeville, NY, listed on the American Stock Exchange as “MOC” .
Seems if he gets out with his retirement intact, he can still guide his company into the Private Security Business in the middle east.. For big bucks.
This is an initial input and will be moderated as per policy. Ulnu is a USAF retiree.
Grumpy
CJ, I stand corrected. I’ve done some research and believe you are on target.
Grumpy
concretebob
I’m with Terri. That a**clown should have been busted to E-1, forfeited all pay and benefits, and given an undesirable discharge after serving a year at Leavenworth.
ulnu
Don’t worry, King Georgie will commute his sentence
PARDON vs COMMUTATION
This is curious. The Constitution gives the President unlimited power to pardon, but it doesn’t even mention commuting a sentence. That act would seem to be left for a judge to perform, not the president. And, the obvious reason is that commuting a sentence means changing the sentence, where a pardon means eliminating the conviction – two entirely different acts. Of course this president doesn’t believe the Constitution has any effect on his actions, so we get a commutation and not a pardon.
Posted by: Hoppy
Date: July 2, 2007 6:08 PM
SOURCE: http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/003579.php
WLL
According to ArmyTimes the afore mentioned Reserve Specialist (former CSM) is from Headquarters and Headquarters Company, 411th Engineer Brigade.
Cpl M
WLL, posting contact info is bad juju. Please don’t do that. For the record: I’ve deleted the comment with the contact info.
Jennifer McGloin
My comments are as follows….Knowing Edward Ramsdell personally for over 30 years, I would ask that one reserve judgement until you actually have the correct information. You all are basing your ridiculous comments on what exactly? So, he is a “dumb***” as many of you have mentioned? Why is that exactly? Because he possessed some porn magazines and a bit of alcohol? Oh my god……Maybe he should be hung. Give me a break. Okay…against military regulations…bad judgement yes, but berating him for crimes he may not have actually commited is in poor taste on all of your parts. Why dont you all take one very good look at yourselves and how many stupid mistakes you have made. Edward is a lifelong military man who was on his third tour in Iraq and made the mistake of actually being human, which I see is not allowed. Before you continue your comments about how much he deserves this, think aboout the fact that maybe he did not actally do everything exactly as you may have read…..One more thing…How many of you have actually served in the military and have spent time in Iraq? One or two maybe…the rest of you couch potatoes have no right to judge until you have walked in those shoes….
CJ
Jennifer,
Allow me, as an Army Master Sergeant and fellow Senior NCO, to explain why he’s a dumbass. He’s a dumbass because he WAS a Sergeant Major and knows the rules. He’s a dumbass because it’s his job to enforce those rules on others. As NCO’s we are tasked as the commander’s “enforcers” and standard bearers. He’s a dumbass because he had porn and alcohol explicitly against General Order #1 in the theater of operations. He’s a dumbass because he threw away a 24 year career for what? Alcohol and porn? He couldn’t wait 15 months to jerk off and get hammered? He’s a dumbass because he took pictures of a Junior NCO while she was unconscious and incapacitated!! He’s a dumbass because he tried to run from CID agents. He’s a dumbass because he hid evidence in a storage shed on LSA Anaconda. Do I really need to go on? The man you knew for 30 years is a shmuck. I’m sorry you were mislead to believe he’s a good man. He’s an embarrassment to the NCO corps. He’s an embarrassment to all of us Senior NCOs who try to do the right thing and TAKE CARE OF SOLDIERS, something inherent in our NCO Creed.
Reserve judgement? For what? Another guilty verdict. He was already tried. How long are we to reserve judgement? He was already found guilty on four of the seven charges against him!! Don’t call us couch potatoes. The author of this post is a highly respected and outstanding Marine NCO and I can bet he has more integrity than Specialist Edward Ramsdell!! I’ve served a tour in Iraq as well. I’ve shouted down officers in Iraq trying to violate the very same rules on alcohol, so we’re not helpless. Patriot is newly promoted senior NCO who has been to Iraq TWICE!!
As for the readers of this site, they are able to make informed decisions because of the fine NCOs that run this site. They have every right to judge when someone of the weak caliber of SPC Ramsdell makes us look bad. They know what true Soldiers look like and how they act. He got off easy if you ask me. He should have been dishonorably discharged and forfeited all pay and allowances. Now, you want to tell me I’m full of $#! go right ahead. I think I know what I’m talking about. And for the record, a full 60% of the commenters on this post ARE military vets!! Talk about “reserv[ing] judgement until you actually have the correct information.”
CJ
ulnu,
That has WHAT to do with this post?
ulnu
CJ Says:
July 11th, 2007 at 4:37 am
ulnu,
That has WHAT to do with this post?
I suspect you are referring to this excerpt:
“”ulnu Says:
July 2nd, 2007 at 7:09 pm
Don’t worry, King Georgie will commute his sentence
PARDON vs COMMUTATION…”
This snarky comment is ‘my opinion’ based on the commutation ability of the Commander in Chief with regard to Scooter Libby . However, there may be an element of reality in the comment.
My WEB research into the persona of Edward Ramsdell shows that he is or was a vice president of a “Private Military Corporation”. Recently, the American Stock Exchange initially listed his business as “MOC” trading today at $2.80, yrly range 2.16 – 3.41. Command Security Corp
This puts him really close or even akin to the (again my opinion) mercenaries who are the outsourced military arm of the Republican Party.
Thus this would put him as an INSIDER to the Iraq and Afganistan Contractor Security Club.
In my opinion, he is laughing all the way to the Bank about his being Busted to E4. We are now media aware that the contractor/mercenary fellowship outnumbers the Military Establishment in the Iraq and Afghanistan warzone.
INTERNET SOURCE data:
Edward Ramsdell is one of CCSU’s best students and a Command Sergeant-Major in the U.S. Army Reserve. He has been chief senior instructor in a military police school and has served at a combat support hospital base in Fort Hamilton, NY. He served in Desert Storm, and his numerous medals and badges attest to his meritorious military service. The finance major, who graduates this May from CCSU, is also scheduled to graduate from the U.S. Army Sergeants Major Academy in July. Outside the classroom, he has been active in the Finance Club, participating in the club’s field trips. A leader in the business world, Ramsdell is vice president of Command Security Corporation, Lagrangeville, NY, where he is responsible for mergers, acquisitions, and divestitures—a position where he puts to good use skills acquired at CCSU’s Business School.
SOURCE: http://www.ccsu.edu/Courier/2004/April/BarnardAwards.htm
Jennifer
Edward Ramsdell has served 24 years in the military…that is a vet. What are you working on….1-2 years? I’m sorry, actually you said you served ONE tour. Some vet you are. I will go right ahead and tell you that you are full of s@&*because you are merely talking out of your A$$. Ed Ramsdell is on his third tour…not one…not two, but three…when you have spent that much time over there then you can talk. You dont even know 1/2 of the story, yet you claim to be the all knowing about this case. He made a big mistake and lost most of what he worked so hard to attain. Step aside CJ or whoever you are, and when you have spent as much time as Edward in a volitile situation, then go ahead and talk. Until then…..grab yourself a beer, sit in front of your lonely computer, and spend all your free time at home ( must be nice) talking trash about a situation you know nothing about.
As far as ULNU’s post goes……you people have far too much time on your hands…now we have a conspiracy going on with Edward’s former job. To quote” This puts him really close or even akin to the (again my opinion) mercenaries who are the outsourced military arm of the Republican Party.” I think you are all paranoid one tour kids who think that you have “served your country well”….How about looking into all the time and effort Ed spent to attain his rank, all the time the army took away from his family and friends, the three tours in Iraq, and one big stupid mistake….You, CJ, are the embarrassment…spending time online (with nothing better to do) bashing someone else…Hope you feel good about yourself…How about your real name “CJ” …maybe we can delve a bit into your life and post it all over the internet. As an ex-cop and an Investigator I can certainly dig up some dirt on you…..Lets go….Or do you have something to hide?
Cpl M
I’m still failing to see any connect between Libby and Spec Ramsdell. Libby’s commutation and this military law case have no direct connection despite your far reaching attempt of making civilians in Iraq “the outsourced military arm of the Republican Party.”
Take your wacko views where they will be appreciated. I hear DailyKos or DU is a great place.
CJ
Jennifer,
You talk a big game but exactly how many years have YOU served in the military? You want to discredit my military service, step up to the plate, sister!! Even if I have only been in “1-2 years”, wouldn’t that be 1-2 years more than you? But, let’s not delve into who’s a bigger patriot here.
You are an ignorant woman and your comment proves it. I’m not one to usually denigrate my readers, but if you even take a moment to look through this site, my life is an open book. So, as an ex-cop, go ahead and dig up all you want. You just better know the extent of your authority, because as a Special Agent myself, I know your authority. The moment you extend beyond it, expect a lawsuit. Everything you need to know about me is right here. And unlike your Specialist Ramsdell friend, you’ll find that I’ve never been arrested, never done drugs, haven’t had a traffic violation I was guilty of in about 15 years, have no extra-marital girlfriends or relationships, I’m heterosexual, and an upstanding member of my community. What you will find is that in my 13 years of honorable military service, I’ve never had so much as a negative counseling statement. I’ve never shied from difficult and stressful jobs within the military. I’ve never abused or misused my troops. Is it 24 or 30? No. But, I can gosh-darn guarantee you that in 24 or 30 years, I won’t be a Specialist!
I haven’t hidden anything. I also don’t wear my deployments on my chest as a war trophy. I don’t need your acceptance to know what I have done for this country. As for your comment about how many tours SPC Ramsdell has served, SO WHAT!! He dishonors his own service. How many other troops have multiple deployments (besides me) that DO NOT have the problems that Ramsdell has? That’s no excuse for his behavior. I don’t care how much time and effort Ed took in attaining his rank, he threw it all away. No one on this site said a word about the case until AFTER he was found guilty. You hear that, right? GUILTY!! Not charged, not suspected, not a person of interest. You seem in denial about this.
Finally, I will continue to talk as long as stupid people like SPC Ramsdell (soon to be retired) keep making us look bad. Do you support the fact that he took pictures of naked woman while she was unconscious? Do you support that he ran from CID and hid evidence? Do you support someone who uses his rank to assume he can ignore the rules about pornography and alcohol while other, more junior Soldiers are being disciplined regularly (probably at the hands of the former CSM) for the same offense? Where is your morale outrage?
ulnu
it’s your blog Cpl M;
“Cpl M Says:
July 12th, 2007 at 3:58 am
I’m still failing to see any connect between Libby and Spec Ramsdell. Libby’s commutation and this military law case have no direct connection despite your far reaching attempt of making civilians in Iraq “the outsourced military arm of the Republican Party.”
Take your wacko views where they will be appreciated. I hear DailyKos or DU is a great place.”
Ulnu, USAF Retired Dec 1981. Two years later (est. 1983 or 24 years ago) Edward Ramsdell enlisted.
Enjoy your own quagmire Cpl.
CJ
Ulnu,
Despite our political differences, thank you for your service. Since I don’t see it as a quagmire, I’ll enjoy it as well, if that’s okay.
KH
Just wanted to let all of you know that Ramsdell no longer works for Command Security Corp., he left thier employee almost a year and a half ago.
Mustang82
OK…read the entire thread. I joined in ’83, earned my stripes in the 82nd after a tour in Europe, and then went to the dark side in ’92 as a Reservist. He was in the unit that replaced mine, so I walked that ground.
1. Yeah, he served a long time.
2. He was a complete dumbass. I met him…lots of bluster. Rubbed a lot of people the wrong way in the short time he was on the ground during my tour, from what I could tell. When you set yourself up as a hard ass “I know everything”…which may just his being “confident”, I don’t know him that well…you have to walk that and live that every day. He failed.
3. All that whining about “its just General Order Number One…” give me a break. If a CSM can’t live by the troop discipline rules, he should not be a CSM. Or anything involving “Sergeant” in that rank. And that is irrelevant…I can overlook porn or booze at a personal level…if you want to risk it, your ass. He was also sexually fraternizing with his own soldiers and was pressuring others to do so…and for THAT, there is never an excuse, in or out of theater. The General Order Number One stuff is trivial compared to that.
4. The rules for retirement is NOT “last three years.” Its “highest three honorably served years”…a board can “disqualify” years. By the same token, there are officers who don’t get their education and end up serving as enlisted to make their 20, but retire as “captain” or “major”. I know of a retired CSM that got jammed *after* retirement for things done on duty and was retired as a MSG. They can retire him as SPC.
5. The fact they didn’t bust him to PV1 was probably due to the recognition of his past service…and was probably more slack than he deserves for being such a reprehensible soldier in a combat zone. Being in a combat zone is exactly when you are being tested–garrison is bullshit. (Not that Balad is far from garrison these days.) If you can’t soldier in a warzone, what good are you?
6. OK…all that “contractor theory” conspiracy stuff…c’mon guys, that’s a far stretch. And this president ain’t got anything on past presidents when it comes to free rides for clemency…and this doofus doesn’t have the stroke (or legal/moral standing) to any such attention.
CJ
Well said, Mustang. Thanks for the clarification and information.
LS
Consider this Jennifer; Perhaps SPC Ramsdell is a man whom you do not know as well as you thought you did. Combat stress is not and never has been an excuse for illegal behavior. Soldiers are expected to live up to a higher standard than civilians and the higher the rank the more that expectation is in place. People in power who abuse that power usually do so because they believe they can get away with it. It makes me wonder if he was able to get away with it in the past. Do you really think if he has done this in the past that he’d let anyone know about it? Porn and booze, yeah, he could have gotten away with a slap on the hand had he not tried to hide the evidence and run from CID. Taking a picture of a woman who was passed out then trying to blackmail her…there’s no excuse for that.
You say you’re an ex-cop. I’ve known lots of cops in my life. I’ve also known a couple who I *thought* were excellent cops until it came out that they had used their position to extort money, sex, or drugs out of people by using their position. Does a career of outward excellence excuse that behavior? Cops suffer from combat stress too. Does that give them an excuse to behave badly against civilians, their family, or other cops? I don’t think so. So why is it that you believe your friend should be given leeway just because he’s had (barely) 3 tours in Iraq? I say barely because I know that he had been in country for less than 60 days when he was caught.
I’ve been in combat myself and I have PTSD. I’ve done some bad stuff because of it but I did not try to use it as a way to get out of my punishment even though my actions may have been influenced by it. By your logic I should have been let off the hook for sending a guy to the ER because I was a combat vet. Also by your logic anyone who commits any atrocity (rape, murder, etc.) while at war should not be punished for it if they claim “combat stress”. By your logic the man who attempted to rape me should not have been punished because of his excuse of combat related stress (even though he hadn’t been anywhere remotely close to it).
Discipline, honor, and training are what keeps our military together. It is human to screw up yes, however there are laws in place for a reason. Just because that person is your friend doesn’t set him apart. Nor does his service in combat. It’s no more of an excuse for unlawful behavior than it is for the rapist whose excuse is having been abused in childhood or the thief for having grown up poor. Your friend did not have the excuse of ignorance because of his rank. It’s made worse because he had the reputation of being a staunch enforcer of the same rules he violated.
Mustang82
I just re-read the press release.
MID OCTOBER!!! WTF! He had a sizable stash of porn and booze when they put their boots on the ground in late August? MAYBE 60 days on the ground? And he was already doing all of this.
This is not “combat stress.” This isn’t “the tour is getting to me.” It looks to me like he had a plan from jump street on what he was and wasn’t going to do…and fortunately, he couldn’t hide it very long.
Yep….being allowed to be a specialist and NOT be a felon is a bit too good for him.
ulnu
At your suggestion I joined DU and I am happy to report some news to you. There is an invitation that a guy join your foxhole.
… Though the words might be erased from a million books and a billion memories, though the world be covered knee-deep in your lies, the truth shall prevail.
This, sir, is your war.
Sen. Clinton has reinforced enemy propaganda? Made it impossible for you to get your ego-driven, blood-steeped win in Iraq?
Then take it into your own hands, Mr. Bush.
Go to Baghdad now and fulfill, finally, your military service obligations.
Go there and fight, your war. Yourself.
SOURCE: newsjock DU, Thu Jul-19-07 08:20 PM, Olbermann transcript here: ‘Go to Iraq and fight, Mr. President’
NON judgmental Patriot
Respectfully, the Army should (and often does) “take care” of its own. Again, as they should. Prohibition of alcohol ended a great long time ago in the US. Society demanded it. The fact the ARMY general order of “prohibition” exists in the culture of the US military for soldiers in Iraq, while on a US Military installation or base is questionable to many and merely an offense that deserves curative behavior and possibly counseling – and drinking is nonetheless wide speed from my understanding. Absent disorderly conduct or public drunkenness many could argue the offense is one that deserves a harsh talking to – not a trial. How many of us are told not to drink for years at a time – whom don’t have a problem with it. Its a lack of freedom we don’t experience – - much less when we are fighting for the freedom of others.
Pictures of beautiful woman (clothed or not) are not an offense that carries with it the punishment that was dished out. Please give me a break!
Relationships, among consenting and unmarried soldiers are viewed by civilians as normal, completely human and rather healthy. If affecting the military establishment or their respective duties, again from a stateside and civilian perspective – yell at the guy and set him straight, certainly, let him know he must stop because he is not going to get a way with it, if the conduct continues . . .but the charging of a 20 year veteran with the offense rather than a “slap on the wrist” or sharp reprimand could appear extraordinarily harsh to many that do not serve in the military.
How many men out there don’t have varying amounts of “T and A” on their laptop or a Playboy under the mattress. How many wartime films accurately and in keeping with the human condition, depict the exact behavior exhibited by the highly decorated soldier?
The whole story is not known. There is no reporting of the trial evidence used or testimony given available to any of us that warrant such prosecution much less a conviction. Silent also are the reports on the defenses that this soldier put forth that were ultimately insufficient to exonerate him.
Most of us live in the real world -outside combat zones and view the press releases and sketchy information as highly suspect. For anyone that has been involved in trial preparation or hearings, especially involving the conduct charged – the real truth often is never presented to the trier of fact.
When are we as Americans and patriots going to stop holding the leaders of our country to such an unrealistic standard in their personal lives? General court marshal (much less formal impeachment proceedings) should be saved for those offences that deserve the formality and severe ramifications. The credibility of such hearings would surely increase in the view of the public at large.
Could it be that as a close relationship with the CSM became more distant someone confided details of the feelings and the CSM’s affectionate behavior resulting in an investigation of the CSM stumbling on various other matters. Sure sounds familiar. Congress would have acquitted him!
Patriot
Interesting how you skip over the more serious offenses of withholding evidence, evading capture, and impeding and investigation. As for the alcohol and porn issue, we are on sovereign Iraqi soil and forced to abide by the agreements made in that country. They do allow alcohol and porn in their society, so we are not allowed to have it. You “if everyone is jumping off a bridge, it must be okay” argument is for privates. Not senior NCOs.
Less Judgmental patriot
USCENTCOM General Order 1, is a blanket order issued by the CENTCOM Commander, General Abizaid, in 2003 which, among other things specifies all the prohibited activities of US service members while deployed in the region.
It is reported that a press conference on the subject journalists and soldiers together debated the issue and subjectivity involved in enforcement
“So what exactly is covered under General Order 1?†the question was repeated.
“No sex.†Someone threw out.
“No alcohol.†Someone else added.
“No pornography.†said another.
“You know,†some smartguy chimed in “all the things we fight for.â€
We are deployed in a country dominated by a population that prescribes to the Muslim religion under which these things are prohibited, and in the course of winning their hearts and minds, we find it a prudent courtesy to refrain from these activities ourselves.
I completely understand both the letter and the spirit of the regulation and whole-heartedly support refraining. . . . (But not the prosecution of our solidiers because of this courtesy to the people that are trying everyday to kill him).
What simply boggles my mind as much as othersm certainly smarter than I though, is the minor furor that erupted recently over an unfortunate placement of articles in an edition of Stars and Stripes distributed throughout both Afghanistan and Iraq. On one page of this particular edition was an article discussing the military’s continuing plan to deal with sexual infractions and on the opposite page another article proclaimed an upcoming free distribution of Maxim magazine throughout the combat theater.
The general order can be found at http://img.slate.com/media/42/061101_Exp_GO-1B.pdf for those uninfomed or ignorant that want to learn and try to understand
Now that we all know the of the order and the consequences.
We should insist on a timetable for our leaders to remove not only the troops from Iraq but also their heads from their respective butts. Edward Ramsdell will be able to defend his legacy. Will our commanders and chief?
To quote from a poem by Denise Girod
“To stand beside a Soldier and walk through his pain will humble a civilian, no longer to complain. Love, patience, trust and hope is what a Soldier needs to get them through some very treacherous deeds. The Cost of a Soldier is set so very high our support for them we should never denyâ€.
Respectfully, Edward Ramsdell graduated while working full time at the age of 35 from University and has exceeded twenty four years in the United States Army. He left his job as a VP for a security firm to serve his country. His service record is exemplary and without any degree of tarnish. In addition, Edward Ramsdell was selected to receive a Distinguished Student Award (not an easy get), therefore, be it charges of withholding evidence (he didn’t plead guilty to charges he was not guilty of enbrace immediately his perdicament), evading capture (what does this possibly mean, come on . . .), and impeding an investigation (threw some bottles away maybe) . . my less then learned guess would be the evidence on those issues was very very weak indeed. His character has without doubt shined for his whole life and his character cannot this simply be discredited or impugned. He was likely only trying to protect his own butt -something the ARMY obviously trained him well for having surviving three tours that we know of. One has to wonder also how many soldiers under his command survived because of his ability commitment and hard yet successful command.s
Other forces were at work here. Would anyone care to bet or risk freedom for 120 days? Read between the lines
To better familiarize ourselves and to assist us all in refraining from hypocrisy – The United States military deploys with large numbers of military personnel (200,000 not including an equal number of contractors)and unique disciplinary requirements. Since most American criminal laws are not applicable outside of the United States, it is important to have a system of criminal justice wherever our troops are deployed. As such, the military services need a flexible, separate, military justice system capable of operating in times of peace or conflict, under the same standards at home or abroad. That system is the Uniform Code of Military Justice, or “the Code.” It is a system of criminal justice that is deployable and applies in all places.
A general court-martial is the most serious level of military courts. In a general court-martial, the maximum punishment is that established for each offense under the Manual for Courts-Martial and can include confinement, a dishonorable or bad-conduct discharge for enlisted personnel or a number of other lesser forms of punishment. Lesser forms of punishment is the operative word here.
The UCMJ is essentially a complete set of criminal laws. It includes many crimes punished under civilian law (e.g., murder, rape, drug use, larceny, drunk driving, etc.), but it goes beyond that to punish other conduct, which affects good order and discipline in the military. Unique military crimes include, for example, such offenses as desertion, absence without leave, disrespect towards superiors, failure to obey orders, dereliction of duty, wrongful disposition of military property, drunk on duty, malingering, and conduct unbecoming an officer. The UCMJ does not classify offenses as petty offenses, misdemeanors, or felonies. Whether an offense is considered within any of these classifications is a matter of other federal or state law definitions. Commission of an offense overseas may result in trial by the host nation – but not in Iraq. Not in this case. Under international law, a foreign nation has jurisdiction to punish offenses committed within its borders by members of a visiting force, unless it expressly or impliedly consents to relinquish its jurisdiction to the visiting sovereign. Generally, the United States has concluded Status of Forces agreements with host nations, even though we are at war with them. Pretty confusing for a civilian to understand. To the extent possible, efforts are made under such agreements to maximize the exercise of court-martial jurisdiction over military members or other persons subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Heres where the earlier order we read comes in to play.
For Minor Offenses NJP is used to discipline members for minor violations of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) and serves to correct misconduct without attaching the stigma of a court-martial conviction to the member. The Manual for Courts-Martial defines a minor offense for NJP purposes as “ordinarily an offense which the maximum sentence imposable would not include a dishonorable discharge or confinement for longer than one year if tried by a general court-martial.” NJP is a disciplinary measure more serious than administrative action (e.g. a letter of reprimand), but less serious than trial by court-martial.
The disposition decision is one of the most important and difficult decisions facing a commander. Each commander the discretion to dispose of offenses within the limits of the officer’s authority. The commander at the lowest level makes the initial decision regarding disposition. Under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), superior commanders may not seek to improperly influence the subordinate commander’s exercise of independent judgment or disciplinary action. However, nothing prevents a superior commander from withholding authority to himself or herself to dispose of offenses in individual cases or types of cases. Certainly, the activity which causes the investigation of his premises for booze and porn were not such an offense.
Generally speaking, the UCMJ and Manual for Courts-Martial establish maximum punishment limits based on the rank of the commander imposing punishment and the rank of the servicemember being punished..
The person who signs the charge sheet and attests to the accuracy of the charges is known as the accuser. Charges are filed under the Uniform Code of Military Justice by act of “preferral.” Although, any person subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice may prefer charges, in most instances the unit commander prefers the charges. Who was his accuser? The woman soldiers? I don’t think so!
Sentencing evidence includes the impact of the crime (both on a victim, and on a unit’s discipline and morale), the servicemember’s duty performance history, and extenuating or mitigating circumstances. . The accused may also testify, give an unsworn statement for consideration. At the conclusion of the presentation of evidence. This I want to read with great interest.
The Courts of Criminal Appeals of the accused’s branch of service will review the case with any luck at all
Clemency is an action by either the court-martial convening authority or a Clemency and Parole Board which may result in the mitigation, remission, or suspension of the whole or any part of an individual’s court-martial sentence. To receive clemency from the convening authority, the accused may submit a request for clemency after the sentence is announced but before the convening authority takes final action. Pursuant to the Uniform Code of Military Justice, Service Secretaries may also grant clemency on unexecuted portions of a court-martial sentence.
Court-martial proceedings are generally open to the public and media. It doesn’t appear that anyone attended CSM Ramsdell’s hearing that chose to write about it. At least its not published anywhere I can find it. Thus, information concerning action taken in open court, the results of court proceedings, and subsequent actions, such as future clemency and appellate review, are not generally protected by the PA. Accordingly, such information may usually be released. Additionally, a written FOIA request is not needed prior to release of such information. However, despite the public availability of court-martial information, a privacy interest may exist with respect to material that is “practically obscure.” None the less, information related to this recent cases may be readily releasable.
Joseph Finder who authored an Op-Ed article on court-martial of Sgt Maj Gene C McKinney on charges of sexual misconduct; says, even within peculiar, distorted world of military justice, McKinney is getting raw deal, noting that even though he may have held highest rank among all enlisted men and women in Army, he was not an officer; and says had a general been accused of similar misconduct, allegations would have been swept aside, and if senior officers accused of similar offenses were treated with same standards, six to eight might be court-martialed each year. He also says the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which was last overhauled in 1983, is outdated, since it does not mention sexual harassment, (or inappropriate relations) forcing military prosecutors to improvise to fit obscure and subjective if not arcane views of such offenses into pre-existing rules – furthering anyones desire to see the investigation and by comparison the CSM’s impressive and most impeccable service record. I earnestly wish that I had been a part of his defense team.
Too often, historically in the civilian world one finds that investigators or prosecutors have put words into the mouths of shady or cooperative witnesses, or people with a grudge or claim or exhibit scorn . . .or maybe prosecutors have “overlooked” key evidence, or held back evidence or has stacked the charge sheet in order to scare the accused or flavor the trier of fact. Do we know what charges he was acquitted of? How many were dismissed before he stood before the courts martial? What picture was painted of this soldier to the court? There may be enough embarassment for all to share.
The CSM’s critics will argue that in a democracy, a nation and a military of laws, one man cannot act above the law regardless of how affectionately motivated, righteous, or distinctly human he or his soldiers believes his feelings, goals, aspirations or actions to be.
But . . .let us consider too – Hilary Clinton “secreting evidence” in her room to thwart an investigation, and later finding it years later. Isn’t that tampering with evidence? A criminal act. Was she protected? Not a serious crime in the least. I will still vote for her if nominated at the convention!
Bush has been clever at secreting evidence; he is also clever at placing blame at the feet of others. Executive privilege is claimed. Sworn testimony withheld everyday in our courts and in congress. People don’t like having to explain to the “powers that be†their good yet subjective best judgment at the time of crisis – because their own words (or computers or closets) will be used against them. The HU element and Politics 101 dramatized for all those that do not share the ambivelence of many in our nation. Its been two weeks – what are the chances of anyone even reading this demagoguery I contribute to in this blog.
In the end – the “authorities” will do what they want; send the country and our precious brothers to war and . . .as accused by civil rights groups decide to not abide by the law themselves – though the ultimate authority.
The authorities make up their own rules and if you happen to step on some ones toes you can very easily be prosecuted for a crime you did not commit and wind up in prison for days, weeks, months or even years. We all know several such cases where authorities made up interviews without a complaining party, falsified documents by altering them, secreting evidence of innocence to be able to convict and deny the person a good defense and a fair trial. The military used to be above all this. But are they now. In 2007? Scrutiny is indicated. It’s a new time we are embarking upon of late. I must sound very paranoid and accusatory, but to sustain my argument please – read the web and all that is available on justice and prosecutorial misconduct. I found also:
Military Parent wrote on Jul 1, 2007 1:39 PM:
” A soldier on his 3rd Iraqi deployment, not much stress and mental fatigue there!!! Give the soldiers a break, no one should be in that country that long, especially in wartime. Give the soldiers some much needed support-they deserve our respect and support. ”
ES wrote on Jul 1, 2007 12:24 PM:
” More good new from Iraq. Good to see the President’s plan is going so well. ”
JRTG wrote on Jul 1, 2007 12:20 PM:
” This is ridiculous. We go to fight for these people and this is how our soldiers are treated? 3 more dead al qaida – who cares? Bring our boys and girls home and let these people have their country back with their fanatic religious leaders. Who really cares about their oil anyway? We have enough in reserve in Alaska. It’s time we start being self-sufficient anyway. Bring ‘em home and let’s block our borders and let the rest of the world deal with their own problems! ”
??? wrote on Jul 1, 2007 3:11 PM:
” Am I reading these remarks correctly? If the story is what it is . . . . The military follows a code of conduct for a reason, to try and maintain respect in a disrespectful environment. I feel for these soldiers pulling long oversea visits, but they did sign up. Also, I don’t think we are really leaving anytime soon, no matter what the right or left will say. We have over the past 4 years built 14 military bases in Iraq, and they are permanent bases…A long with an embassy that cost 600 million dollars.
Fair wrote on Jul 1, 2007 6:50 AM:
“First try Jane Fonda for treason before these guys have their day in court.”
Something should and has to be done; no one is safe from this type of prosecutorial conduct. You or anyone in a position of limited authority (such as Ed) could easily be next. Remember Ms Flame? Scooter Libby. The hundreds of prisoners held in Cuba? Oliver North? SM McKinney . . . the list could grow and grow and grow.
I could go on and on with this all day, but in the end what many have posted is pure Bologna. Jennifer made the point best. He made a mistake. Ed is from all accounts a great man and soldier “chock full†of pride for his country, family and friends. That can never be taken from him despite the failed argument that a few bottles and a fondness for the opposite sex is capable of any lasting disrespect of his service and commitment to this country and all of us. I will honor him and on a less serious note assist him if asked seeking a pardon – so genuinely deserved in my opinion. Who are Scooter’s defense attorneys anyway? Oh yeah . . .in final word . . .despite Mustang’s puffing Ramsdell has never ran from anything. Much less a couple of processors of “justiceâ€. And if he had any problem with the CSM while in Iraq should have settled that grudge then – not now that he is back in the USA. Safe.
Again quoting Ms Girod
“A True Soldier is tough indeed standing tall and strong when there is a need. A Soldier also feels sadness, pain, and sorrow, sometimes not looking forward to the trials of tomorrowâ€.
Thank you for a good and important debate and to all the veterans and those soldiers who serve for my benifit and safety here at home. Even with our faults – this country and its values are worth preserving and protecting.
Peace
Cpl M
It is quite obvious that most of Ramsdell’s supporters do not have any history of personal military service. Given that, I will excuse your extreme ignorance when it comes to military law and why those rules are there. We’ll address his major offenses that started this off.
1) Alcohol
Really, how wise is it to drink in a combat zone? Life and death decisions are made on a daily basis. Every service member, except for chaplains, are armed with some sort of firearm and ammo. Do you want some drunk carrying around between 50 and 120 rounds? Certainly not I. It is not safe.
2) Porn
The guy took pictures of his troops passed out drunk. He crossed the line between senior enlisted leadership and the troops. That simply cannot happen in an organization that depends on a chain of command. He is an unfit leader and is not a leader any longer.
I really don’t expect any civilian to truly understand how much of a slimeball this guy is. Support him or not, he broke rules. I don’t care what kind of man he is other than this one incident. He broke the rules and paid for it. Period. End of story.
Patriot
Less Judgemental Patriot,
You still refuse to even acknowledge the other serious crimes of evidence tampering and flight from law enforcement. Your cut and paste thesis doesn’t do much for me, but CPL M took care of the heart of the matter.
Star
Defend him all you want. He knew what he was doing was wrong. Yes, we’re all human…but not all go nearly as far as Ramsdell did, war or not. He thought he could get away with being sneaky, and hoped that nobody who mattered would find out. He knows he did a very bad thing, otherwise he would not have tampered with evidence or attempted flight….that’s all that matters. He’s lucky at this point to be coming home eventually to people who still have some kind of trust in him. I’m sure there are some who will never look at him the same way however. This will follow him the rest of his life….should have thought about that before “being human”…after all he knew his rank and what that meant. Remember, he’s smart…..
Bones
This SPC who threw away his career did it with full knowledge of the possible consequences. He knew about the rules because he enforced those very rules against soldiers sailors airmen and Marines at the very base where he was found out. During OIFIII he was the CSM for the Garrison Command for LSA Anaconda. As far as I know he never even went outside of the wire, smoked cigars he obtained from who knows where and spread his bluster about freely. He deserves what he got and should be grateful he didn’t get found guilty of something more significant. Insubordination and fraternization cut to the core the Army values. To think that this individual was again responsible for soldiers in the field only makes me happier that he finally got caught.
Ed
I agree with everything except the pornography part of the charges. Pornography is legal in the United States, obscenity isnt. When I was in, every locker had a playboy centerfold in it. So whats wrong with a guy keeping some T and A pics to remind him of the girls back home? I agree diddling with young soldier girls was dumb. He could have caught something.
Star
I’m sure he had just a tad more then magazines with “T and A” hidden under the mattress. His problems are bigger then a few Playboy’s.
Debbie
I have known Ed for 22 years. He was on his 3rd tour in Iraq and I know he was ready to come home. The booze and babes — well what is a guy to do while over there for his 3rd year. The more serious legal stuff seems way out of character for Ed. I am totally shocked and feel that there is more to the story than what we are hearing. If it is all true, the war has taken its toll on him. Its a shame and very unfortunate. As for all the speculating bullshit you all tell…. he enlisted after HS, worked in Germany during the Cold War, was then in the reserves, did have a great job in NYC with Command Security, did graduate from college recently in CT, did crack everyone up at my wedding, did impress my father who was a Vietnam F4 Pilot, did put a lot of his life on hold for the military. He was proud of his rank and his service to his country. It is easy for all of you to pass judgment. I am just glad he is not one of the guys in the related articles charged with murder.
Cpl M
Debbie,
Allow me a moment to blast your “defense” of Spc Ramsdell out of the water.
He was on his 3rd tour in Iraq and I know he was ready to come home.
Are you trying to say he would do anything to come home so soon in his deployment?
The booze and babes — well what is a guy to do while over there for his 3rd year.
How about start by following the rules? Once that lesson is mastered, how about not abusing the troops?
I am totally shocked and feel that there is more to the story than what we are hearing.
Really? Why hasn’t he come forward? Do you also think 9/11 was an inside job?
If it is all true, the war has taken its toll on him. Its a shame and very unfortunate.
Blaming it on the war? What in the world ever happened to personal accountability?
As for all the speculating bullshit you all tell…. he enlisted after HS, worked in Germany during the Cold War, was then in the reserves, did have a great job in NYC with Command Security, did graduate from college recently in CT, did crack everyone up at my wedding, did impress my father who was a Vietnam F4 Pilot, did put a lot of his life on hold for the military.
And all of that excuses the fact he broke the rules and abused troops? Oh, and since you’ve never commented before, I’ll be nice. Don’t curse. Thanks.
He was proud of his rank and his service to his country. It is easy for all of you to pass judgment.
And did his pride also make him think he would be able to get away with blantly breaking the rules and then running for justice?
I am just glad he is not one of the guys in the related articles charged with murder.
Classic attempt at justifying the acts of others by comparing to other acts that aren’t remotely related. Pitiful.
Debbie
So – do all the guys follow the babe and booze rules. Come on.. be real? I know for a fact that they don’t.
What the heck does 9/11 have to do with this. If you want to talk war and 9/11…. read Fiasco and then we can talk.
Are you telling me that being in a war zone does not impact ones mind, judgemnt, etc? Again, I know first hand how the war changes people. I am a brat, I have a sibling who has served in Iraq and a dad who relived the atrocities of Vietnam daily. Maybe you are some super hero and can handle it all and make sense of it. If that is so, maybe you can lead seminars for the military on how to keep it all together. This might in fact help GW improve his rating and the anti war sentiments.
So you are for killing people in foreign lands but I can’t curse. Hum….. that interesting.
Bottomline it is out of character for him – thus the questions. I have not had a chance to hear any of his side of the story. But obviously he broke some laws – I will give you that.
Pitiful, end of story, period….. all the words you use in your commentaries. I am glad you are so high on yourself and think no one other than youself has a brain. You have a lot to learn. Maybe you should jump out of your Ivory Tower and hit the ground running.
The obstacles of life are hard enough but throw in a warzone…. I wish it were that easy.
Cpl M
My question about 9/11 was just a way to get you to admit exactly what you think of the war and the military in general. Just as I thought, you’re not exactly supportive.
Jump out of my Ivory Tower? You obviously haven’t read much of the archives around here. Check out my posts from the last six months or so. It’ll do you well.
As most of our regulars know, the rules are made by CJ for the most part. No cursing is one of his rules and I enforce them since he pays the bills around here.
unknowen
Ed ramsdell can’t say I don’t know him. With family growing up and going to the same high school with him and keeping in contact with him through out the years makes me so ashamed of him. My husband serves in the military (army)this makes him look bad as does for the rest of the military. Ed ramsdell is an incompitant no good peace of crap that honestly needs to be in the brig a lot longer than what he is serving. Because any one lower than him would be in easly for over a year! So it really upsets me to see such a failure and embaressment to the united states military! But in reality he will get more once he goes home. He has to do deal with the town he lives in. He might as well go stick his head in a sand box because he will be so badly looked apon its sad. Hope our family doesn’t run into him any time soon. I may just get sick at the sight of that man!
Lydia Rodrigues
Does anyone have an update on Ramsdell? Is he out of jail?
SeniorNCO
Heard he was in the federal pen at Fort Dix. Not sure if he is out of jail yet, but heard he was out of the Army. Guess he thought he was so smart he could fool everyone. Ended up fooling himself. The Army spent a lot of money training him. Too bad that part of his punishment wasn’t paying Uncle Sam back for all that was invested in him.
ulnu
STOP LOSS orders are at an all time high over in the Desert. As an E4, He is likely to be there for quite some time. Even Condi Rice can’t get State Department officials to volunteer for Baghdad…She may have to start the military Draft at the state Department.
Lydia Rodrigues
Keep me updated on the Edward Ramsdell case. I served in a unit with him once but didn’t know him enough to comment on his character. I’m interested in whether they let him stay in or not. Thanks.
SKI
SERVED WITH ED, BASIC/AIT AND IN GERMANY. I’VE READ IT ALL, AGREE WITH MORE THAN LESS OF THE COMMENTS.
PEOPLE CHANGE, PEOPLE MAKE CHOICES, SOME GET CAUGHT, SOME DON’T. THAT BEING SAID, I’M PROUD TO HAVE ONCE SERVED WITH ED.
Old Sarge
He is a civilian now… Word is he is looking to challenge the findings of the Court-Martial??
Star
Challenge the findings…..I’m sure his hiding evidence will work really well in his challenge, oh and his running. All innocent people try to hide. Maybe he was just misunderstood, like every other bad guy out there. Ed knows he screwed up. Guess he has nothing else to loose at this point.
Joe
Been a year since this broke. Any word on where SPC Ramsdell is now?
Sue
I just heard about this, and am very saddened. I’ve known – and respected – Ed for 20 years. I first met him when he was getting ready to go to Desert Storm. I last saw him just before his second tour in Iraq.
I know that having reached his 20 years during his first tour in Iraq, and after returning to the states, Ed attempted to retire from the military. He had just completed college, and was looking at the possibility of moving forward in his career. He wanted to be free to commit himself to a new employer. The army told him that they would bust him two ranks (he was already a Divisional Command Seargeant Major)if he did not do his second tour, because they needed his leadership over there. Ed resented it, but agreed to go, with the thought that he would retire after his second tour, able to fully benefit from all of the time and effort he had put in.
I know Ed as a super-patriot, and a proud soldier who enlisted in the army on his 18th birthday. The fact that this has happened breaks my heart. I don’t know if the military was still threatening his pension when he went back to Camp Anaconda for the third time. All I can believe is that resentment had entered his heart, resentment that he was again giving up years of his life, and that caused him to behave so foolishly.
I sincerely doubt that he was the only CSM in the theater who was in possession of alcohol and pornography, however that is being defined. I sincerely doubt he is the only officer in the theater to fraternize with a subordinate. I am also guessing that, as prosecutors do in this country, they heaped every charge they could on him, to increase the odds that something would stick. None of that is an excuse, and I don’t mean to make excuses for him. He obviously did something to draw attention to himself, where others perhaps have not, and got what he deserved for doing so.
I believe that there are many forms of combat fatigue, and we will continue to see it manifesting as our troops return. Men and women repeatedly putting their lives on hold to go and stand in for the Iraqi troops who should be doing for themselves is increasingly painful. Perhaps that is what happened here, perhaps not. Only Ed could say for sure – from anyone else, whether or not they know Ed, it is only personal opinion.
Ed is out of the brig, and working.
onlooker
Apparently living comfortably, got old job back.
Sue
No, he did not get his old job back, and no, he is not living comfortably.
There really are an awful lot of assumptions and jumping to conclusions made in this blog.
Joe
Assumptions and conclusions??
If that is the case, exactly what did happen? Was the former CSM “wronged”.
Highly unlikely… He just got caught this time…
VLL
I was in the unit the CSM and his unit replaced. Soon as that unit hit ground they had issues and all were complaining about “the Command” out to get folks for innappropriate relationships and whatever. I know this is also because the guy who replaced me was in this situation but he had gotten married to this person during the deployment. I am a firm believer that the Command makes the atmosphere of the unit. How was it that the morale was so negative before they even mobilized? I tell you, NONE of these folks got along with eachother or had there heart in the game to be a Team Memeber critical to assuming roles in a combat environment. These guys hated eachother and didn’t want to be there. We in our unit picked up on it from day 1 when we picked them up and housed them. They all had something bad to say about the CSM and I admit, when I met him I thought he was full of arrogance. Did he do all those things? Hmmm? Don’t know? Did his unit set him up? Maybe they did, but he left himself open through his arrogance. If you are not fair and are not straight cut and take care of Soldiers then you are a target of your own games. I spent 21 years in the Army and was deployed more than 3 times in more than one place. I think I know just alittle bit of leadership to see someone who is not interested in taking care of Soldiers. I can see Soldiers and realize what devious notions they are capable of when on a witchhunt. He was trying to bust Soldiers for the very same violations he supposedly commited. Did he? Maybe. Like I said the whole unit was bad and had issues that should have been addressed and that only a Command level could address. Your Soldiers are a reflection of your leadership. I’m sure the folks that know the CSM find him to be a fine man, and he may be in some cases at certain times or he maybe bad all the way around and is good at hiding it. Fact is and this is where it ends. The military judicial system is set up to be meticulous and is fair. I am positive someone did there homework and made sure all was presented before the final verdict.
sue
Any updates on this?
Joe
Word has it he lost his military pension.
sue
Good. Every winning streak must end….especially when cheating a system is involved.
bubba
Its a shame really in all aspects.
The CSM got in trouble. Now being busted to e-4 is a MAJOR punishment.
About his retirement,I am no expert but busted is busted!
He will get E-4 retirement pay and that pay caps at E-4 over 6 years of service.
Now no discharge was awarded at the court martial,but I am sure after his confinment and fines he will get an ADMIN discharge.
Most likely an OTH,whether that precludes him from even recieving the meager E-4 retirement pay or not I really don’y know.
I guess it depends on the forfitures at the court martial.
bubba
Okay I was wrong on my lasy post.
He falls under the 3 year top base pay rule.
If he was enlisted prior to Sept 8 1980 he would have been under the last rank before retirement rule. Which would have been the E-4 rank as I stated above.
Now he can get the average of his 3 years of highest base pay,in his case E-9.
Not bad for him. He just has to undergo some embarrisment and some crap details but if I was him I would foolow all the rules from here on out.
Still not sure if he gets an OTH if that would have any bearing on the retirement money.
L
What???????
Marcus
Are you confused by something, L?
old friend
Looks like he’s moving on and getting his MBA in CT. He’ll end up doing just fine, I’m sure. The only thing good about this is that he probably has a little bit of a conscience, so he’ll think about what he did to himself and others for the rest of his life.
Patriot supporter
Ed is still the fine, honorable and dedicated man and friend he was his entire life. The Army made him a better man. Even still.
Ed is no loneger in the US Armey and the Arny is no longer in him (so to speak). Ed is married – and from all reports is a compassionate and caring husband and father, – and is doing very well.
He received his MBA from UCONN, and is a principal at a Security firm in CT.
the hiccup in his career and the embarrassment of this operiod in his life are faduing into history. I for one am glad to see him moving on with so much character and responsibility.
Im still learning and want to share:
Bottom line is that nine times out of 10, sexual harassment and other leadership issues resulting in Uniform Code of Military Justice action stem from senior- subordinate relationships.
So what is this animal and how do we define it? Well for one, do not confuse this with fraternization under Article 134 of UCMJ. The offense of fraternization occurs between officers and enlisted personnel and is defined as follows:
“Elements of proof” for the offense of fraternization are:
1. That the accused was a commissioned or warrant officer;
2. That the accused fraternized on terms of military equality with one or more certain enlisted member(s) in a certain manner;
3. That the accused then knew the person(s) to be (an) enlisted member(s);
4. That such fraternization violated the custom of the accused’s service that officers shall not fraternize with enlisted members on terms of military equality;
5. That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.
On the other hand, Army Command Policy states that inappropriate senior-subordinate relationships can occur between or within any combination of officers, warrant officers and enlisted personnel.
Army Regulation 600-20 provides that inappropriate superior-subordinate relationships are prohibited if they:
1. Compromise, or appear to compromise, the integrity of supervisory authority or the chain of command;
2. Cause actual or perceived partiality or unfairness;
3. Involve, or appear to involve, the improper use of rank or position for personal gain;
4. Are, or are perceived to be, exploitative or coercive in nature;
5. Create an actual or clearly predictable adverse impact on discipline, authority, morale or the ability of the command to accomplish its mission.
Now just to clarify something that is usually a misnomer, inappropriate relationships between Soldiers of different rank are not necessarily exclusive to those relationships that are sexual in nature. Consider the following scenarios.
You might have a problem if:
• you are a noncommissioned officer who gambles with officers and owes them money,
• you are an officer who has habitual car trouble and continues to seek out a NCO in the organization to fix it,
• say you are a platoon sergeant or instructor and have a sexual encounter with an Advanced Individual Training student.
You get the picture? It is simple: ethics and Army values rule the day and define our conduct. Most of the time these personal relationships are clearly contrary to Army values but, nevertheless, continue even though the inappropriate conduct is glaringly obvious. Trust me – the reality is that someone else will perceive the impropriety of such a relationship as much as you may want to ignore that perception. Over time, everyone knows what the real deal is. Make no mistake, a personal superior-subordinate relationship, which appears more personal than professional, is usually known all over post. When the investigations come, they all look at each other and say “it was just a matter of time.”
Moreover sexual relationships between enlisted ranks are inappropriate if the Soldiers involved are in a supervisor-subordinate relationship or are in the same rating scheme.
And life goes on. And the General Order is still in place. It can be vieqwed here. Its kind of laughable. But then Im a civilian. And patriot. And Friend of the CSM.
http://www.tac.usace.army.mil/deploymentcenter/tac_docs/GO-1.pdf
Beth
Thank you Ed- I mean “Patriot supporter” for the glowing update.
my opinion
Yes, yes. The old “he’s such a nice guy” song and dance…fact of the matter is that he did something that someone in his rank should not have done. From all reports it sounded like he was juggling a few at once, which is probably what bit him in the butt. Noone has ever died from not having sex for a period of time. Hey- with any luck, he really did learn a lesson, and can be faithful to a women, but I’m not willing to put money on it.