Comments on: Laurean Dropping Off Radar

By: ZSU

ZSU — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 05:06:00 +0000

isaac – -
Eternal vigilance remains the price of freedom.
Alas, vigilance includes bloodshed.
isaac, your freedom resulted from that vigilance and bloodshed.
If we listen closely, maybe we can hear the cheers of those whose blood and bruises; muscle and sweat, paid for your freedom. And the cheers would be followed by a resounding, “You’re welcome!” Your gracious appreciation makes the sacrifices worth while.
Thank you, Grumpy. Yours is the combined but singular voice of Gettysburg, The Marne, Bastogne, Pork Chop Hill, and Iraq. You learned well, and now you share your accumulated intelligence and smarts to help others form better understanding.
Thank you. You both are ‘spirit lifters’.

By: Isaac

Isaac — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:49:52 +0000

Grumpy,
Ok, thanks for your insight, I stand corrected. It feels great for a vet to be educating me. Especially since the Vietnam war which you fought in saved my country.

Critical Facts,
If you have not noticed sir, I come from Singapore, also in South East Asia and during the time of the Vietnam War, my own goverment was trying to root out the communist in our own country. It did not help in the early 60s that they had backing from China and Vietnam. The US troops in Vietnam paid for my freedom. I hope you can see my point.

By: Grumpy

Grumpy — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:52:36 +0000

Isaac, let’s just take a look at your journey. On 30 Jan 2008, 9:18 AM, you wrote a comment on this situation. First, you talk of the impact on Marcus with this situtuation. I agree with you. But, sadly, Marines do, at times, lie. There is a major difference between “wanting to be in the Marines” and being one. Even though you are not a Marine, you can still respect a Marine. I am from a different era, Viet Nam. I am a service-connected disabled vet from the Air Force. Isaac, you had the COURAGE and HONESTY to actually write it into your comment. For the record, YES, I still respect the Marine Corps. At the end your first comment on this thread, 30 Jan 2008, 9:18AM, you finish it with a caveat. “Still, him not being guilty is just a gut feeling and it should not be taken as a full opinion.” Isaac, through much of our lives, we had this very scary adversary named, “Doubt.” Yet, Doubt is an absolute part of our learning cycle. If we say, “We have no doubts!” Then, we have no princples or convictions. It is only after our ideas have been put through the heated crucible of doubt, do they have a chance to become real convictions or principles. This is the essential importance of dissenting opinons. As you well know, “gut feelings” do not pass the test for a conviction. It also must meet the test of a “reasonable doubt” not any doubt, for vindication. It is really neat to have a place to write those “gut feelings” and get the insights of others. I always learn.

Respectfully,
Grumpy Old Vet

By: Critical Facts

Critical Facts — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 18:20:00 +0000

“Vietnam was also the right thing to do, seeing that if the US troops were not there my country would be under communist rule.”

Man, oh man, oh man! And to think that some of my positions here are met with suspicion! I don’t even know where to start with the above statement, other than to say the Kool-Aid being passed around to some of today’s youth appears mighty strong!!!

By: Isaac

Isaac — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:43:51 +0000

JD,
Are you still in the Marines? Otherwise, how would you know that such things are a norm? I plan to join the Marines myself, the Haditha Marines are innocent in my opinion and as for “shooting up civilians”, the Marines are not guilty of anything. Please check your facts.

I also think that Iraq is getting better and is by no means a quagmire. Vietnam was also the right thing to do, seeing that if the US troops were not there my country would be under communist rule. I hope this sheds some light on all of our thinking as to yours.

By: JD

JD — Thu, 31 Jan 2008 04:40:37 +0000

“Honor, Courage, Commitment” – after having spent 3 years as a recruiter for the Marine Corps and 2 deployments to Iraq, I am convinced these words are nothing but an advertising slogan to entice unsuspecting young folks to join our imperial Republican gun club. The conduct of this Marine from Camp Lejeune, the Marines at Haditha, the Marines in Afghanistan shooting up civilians, do not reflect positively the supposed values of our Corps. Incidents are occurring with such frequency that I am beginning to believe they are not anomalies, but rather the norm. Shooting up civilians in Iraq is almost a daily occurrence. We call it “escalation of force”. I call it overzealousness. I believed the propaganda when I joined the Marine Corps years ago. I don’t believe it anymore. My mission is to discourage first-termers from re-enlisting and to discourage kids from enlisting until we are done with with the current Iraq debacle and quagmire. Semper Fidelis.

By: Grumpy

Grumpy — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:32:46 +0000

Lauren,

The important thing is for the truth come out. On both levels, there are many people who make NO sacrifice. It appears that you are involved in both the Military/Veteran and the First Responders. This means you are in the truly unsung heroes.

I am GREATLY and GLADLY CORRECTED!

Grumpy

By: Grumpy

Grumpy — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:20:16 +0000

Lauren, I am GREATLY and GLADLY CORRECTED! The important thing is for the truth come out.

Your first paragraph speaks of the true unsung heroes, the military family. Please understand, some people make absolutely no sacrifice in this overall situation.

The absolute truth brings honor to you and corrects me.

Grumpy

By: Lauren

Lauren — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:35:03 +0000

Grumpy,

Besides supporting the soldiers in Iraq and Afghanastan for the last 4 years my father was in Vietnam and my grandfather was in WWII so I would say yes I do have some kind of military experience in my life.

The point I was trying to make which maybe you mistook was just because one is in the military or law enforcement doesnt mean they arent above doing any kind of crimes. Before you mistake statement I come from a huge family of NYPD and I respect them as much as I do military but unfortunately is does happen.

By: Grumpy

Grumpy — Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:05:28 +0000

Lauren, point of information, running does not make this man 100% guilty, it just raises questions, which need answers. By the way you write, it appears you have no military experience in your own life. I agree, first responders are more important to this Country, then most people realize. These people should receive their due place of honor.

To all, as I read I see many things in the comments. Yes, I’m an Air Force Vet, from the 1960′s. I see the acitve-duty, reserve and the civilian sides to this story. Each of you have your own place in this story as it should be. Note: It is not the same! There is a major difference between knowing something and knowing about something. Experience is a very tough old sea hag of a teacher.

As I see it, we have the great divide between the civilian and the military. We have a small group of civilians who make a momentous decision to cross the divide. Because of the weapons we use and our resources, the military voluntarily take upon themselves a whole different branch of law. Yes, some of that different branch of law takes away some of their Constitutional Rights, as in the 2nd and 5th Ammendments. As long as they are in uniform, they build into their lives a Code of Honor for themselves, an Order and a Discipline. Even in many ways, after they’re discharged, these things are still built into the very core logic of their being.

As we continue this Global War on Terror, we need to grow a new military. This shows the importance of “The Historic Traditions and The Future Hopes of The United States Marine Corps.” This situation on Laurean reflects on a much larger picture. Am I convinced of Laurean’s guilt? I have not seen the forensic evidence on the case.

Lauren, there is one thing, I am really glad you had the courage to write! This is the way we learn.

To the rest of you, what do YOU think? Join in.

Grumpy